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Ok, first off: I know nothing. This is pure speculation. But yesterday Apple - finally – unveiled major updates to its pro apps with new versions of Final Cut Studio and Logic Studio, each including new versions of every app in the suite (well, aside from the long forgotten DVD Studio Pro which lingers at version 4 - and probably will until it’s finally killed off).
This surprised me as I was thinking these wouldn’t come until Snow Leopard was released. And a Thursday in the middle of July? mmm…k. Now, I’m thrilled about the new Logic Pro since it’s long been my weapon of choice in my other life. But where art thou Aperture 3?
What has me pumped is a software update called ProKit Update. This is something that always comes with new pro app versions but here’s the thing: it mentions being a required update for Aperture.
Does this mean a new version soon? Or is it just boilerplate text that simply mentions every pro application?
I’m very much looking forward to a new Aperture and hoping for another leapfrog match with Lighroom. As far as I’m concerned, Apple needs to nail this one. Seriously. But that’s for another post…
There’s nothing like wild speculation based on zero information!!
I’m joking!
But seriously, why wait for Aperture to catch up with Lightroom?? By the time Apple gets with the program and makes a version worthy of use by more than 3% of creative professionals Adobe will also be at version 3 of Lr. It would be like expecting Micros**t to catch up with Apple.
But hey, if they do manage to pull it off then I’d be willing to at least try the demo.
Two things would have to happen.
1. With 97% market share Adobe catches hubrisitis and screws up Lr3. It’s as ugly as v2 and has only 3 new features.
2. Apple nails Aperture 3 in a big way, with a simplified interface, non-destructive editing and multi-core speeeed. Oh, and a $99 price tag. I think it’s appropriate to price a product in proportion to how much effort you put into it.
But: If they add YouTube and Flickr support and the retarded ‘faces’ add-on I think I’ll puke.
Patrick, I think it is sad/funny that we’re talking about Apple needing a ‘leapfrog’ product when in reality we mean a ‘catch-up’ product. Aperture isn’t bad, and if we didn’t have Lr I’d be a user. It’s just that Adobe set the bar out in space somewhere. However, I think there are a lot of Mac photographers out there waiting for a chance to ditch the ugly-as-sin Lightroom. I’m one.
Neil:
Entirely gratuitous speculation is right.
But I was honestly surprised by this mid-summer release: not only is it strange timing but I was convinced – given how overdue all these apps were – that new versions would be synced with Snow Leopard this Fall. Of course, the new versions are intel only which points to possible inclusion of SL specific technology under the hood. So why not Aperture 3?
I’m not sure Adobe has “set the bar out in space somewhere” Neil. There are some essential features that need to be in AP3, non-destructive local editing being at the top of the tops. Good RAW profiles are another – super important – one. But I don’t have a problem with Aperture’s interface and I just can’t enjoy working in LR. After testing the latest version I’m still finding it messy and convoluted. And while LR1 was ridiculously faster than AP1, I’m not seeing that much of a gap with the 2.0 versions.
Now I completely agree with you that Apple has some catching up to do. And yes, Flickr support and Faces are probably as low as anything could be on my totem pole as well. But when I look at what Apple has in terms of technology in apps like Color and Motion, and when I read about Grand Central, Open CL and CoreData I just can’t help hoping for a grand slam with Aperture 3.
Besides, historically Apple tends to nail everything they do at their third try. However speculative this post was (!) we’ll find out pretty soon.
One other thing: there was an intervention in a forum discussion by Michael Rubin, Sr. Mgr of Product and Software at Nikon. We were talking about AP supporting Nikon settings in its RAW decoder and someone suggested contacting him.
His first reply was:
“Please refrain from contacting me regarding this particular matter.I cannot answer if Apple is an SDK signatory or not as the Nikon SDK requires mutual non-disclosure agreements. Further, Apple develops their RAW processing inside Apple in Cupertino. There is no RAW processing library beyond our SDK. Any development of the Apple RAW processing engine is done by Apple. You need to address this matter with Apple, not with me and not with Nikon. You are free to contact me with any other matters regarding Nikon software.
Thank you,
Michael”
To which I asked: “Michael, am I to understand that Nikon does make it’s RAW settings available to other parties via a licensing agreement? Which means Apple could in theory have access to Nikon’s internal camera settings when decoding the files just as NX does?”
And he said this: “I am sorry but I cannot disclose our levels of cooperation with anyone, however, understand that Apple had the Coolpix P5000 at the Macworld keynote. This was not by chance.”
Could be nothing. Could be something. Apple’s secretive nature means anything’s possible in my book…
I’m holding off also in buying aperture in case they update it. There was one note when iPhoto was updated, and the rumor at it’s release from the apple folks is that a new version will be out this summer, so I’ve read. But I find it interesting that the Apple SWIS at best buys have pulled the program from their shelves, and now is only available online…..
Paul:
You’re right to wait: it’s no big mystery that a new version will be here within a few months. And I firmly believe that a lot of the delay for AP 3 has to do with Snow Leopard. I was watching some first look videos of Logic 9 at macprovideo.com and one of the segments was showing off CPU optimization. For the very first time, Logic is using ALL available cores and distibuting the load evenly. That’s a huge deal when you’re running several instances of demanding VIs like Sculpture or the B3 on top of production plugins. I’m certain this has to do with the groundwork that’s been laid down for SL and if I’m right, it means even more gains coming once the cat is out.
What does this have to do with Aperture? I think the app is going through the same kind of refinement. Apple said all included apps would be rebuilt for Snow Leopard and the pro apps have the potential to be showcases for all the new technology they have in store for OS X.
I’m waiting to be blown away.
Great discussion chaps.
Others seem to have better success with Ap than me, I am running on more lowly hardware and Ap seems to need top-of-the-line everything to run smoothly. I am just seriously disappointed that Ap doesn’t match a tenth of the capability of Lr, I am after all a Mac nutcase.
Simply put though, the numbers speak for themselves and leave little for debate: Lr has cleaned Ap’s clock. Ap holds a very low market share in a field Apple should outright own. This to me is an absolute travesty.
It happens one user at a time, when someone like me gets hold of the Lr demo and just goes, “Holy smokes this is ugly but look what I can do. Without Nik and without Mr Kubota!”
It would have been great if my Lr experience was actually pleasurable instead of just work, but I can do so much to my images so easily and quickly that I just don’t care.
One example: There’s the ability to go back later and redo images. Each image retains its own individual history, so I can go back in, see what I did and tweak it non-destructively. I could go on and on with stuff like that.
When I was on the hunt for the best app I did so much research it was stupid. I spent days reading comments like, “I’m a pro photographer and tried Ap and it was good, but once I had a crack at Lr I was blown away…”
Somehow Adobe read the market right, they got to the core of what real shooters want and made the right app. It looks like what Apple did was invited some big time high end guys like Bob Davis to Cupertino for a nice all-expenses-paid weekend and made an app from their recommendations. But Bob charges $20k to shoot a wedding, he’s exceptional, not typical.
I have to run an iMac until I can swing something better, and Ap will not run on any iMac I’ve used (at least, the 3 I’ve tried so far).
In the end I think we’re all hoping for the same thing, that Ap3 will match the feature set and speed of Lr without the hideous interface and retarded modules.
I’d be interested to hear more of what you guys think. How will Snow Leopard improve Ap? Will Apple really catch Adobe? Why is it that I’m continuing to watch ‘Star Wars the Clone Wars’ when it’s so bad?
“I have to run an iMac until I can swing something better, and Ap will not run on any iMac I’ve used (at least, the 3 I’ve tried so far).”
What a load of cobblers (as they say here in the UK). I am a pro wedding photographer – shooting between 10 – 20 weddings a year. I LOVE APERTURE. Tried LR in beta and hated it so bought aperture and have 0 regrets. I use it on my iMac and Macbook Pro (also on an old G5 iMac).
Aperture is solid and dependable and when shooting a wedding, I know I can rescue images that can be extremely quick and difficult to take (blown highlights etc). Lr like all adobe products is bloated (bridge anyone? – never seen the point!)
I personally love the interface and find it quick to edit the 1000 or so images I take on a shoot. I would like to see even tighter integration into iPhoto – One library shared amongst the two apps so I can keep family snaps in the same album and not have to copy across amongst the 2 programs.
Recently tried Nikon Capture and Nikon NX – again didn’t get along too well although really liked the individual points to edit.
Keep up the conversation – and if you invest in better hardware (i.e Intel based) give Aperture another go – I have been using since v1 and love it.
Steve ,
I second your comments … I have LR , NX2 & AP .. but when doing a wedding with +1000 photos , I immediately turn AP
I am Running AP on a macbook pro 2.5ghz …
Waiting anxiously to AP 3
Neil:
I have to agree with Steve: I run Aperture on a 2006 iMac and while it’s no speed demon these days – waiting for the new crop in the next months to upgrade – I pretty much live in Aperture without any major problems. This is with D300 RAW files, several plugin suites and Photoshop. I process an average of about 700 files a month and can pretty much fly through a large (800-2000) shoot.
Maybe it’s me but I’m just not blown away by LR, no matter how I try. And although I agree with you that LR includes more image manipulation tools out of the box, they still can’t replace things I’ve come to rely on like Silver Efex Pro or other Nik plugins. Yes, this means more money invested in Aperture. But it also means I’m getting the images I want AND the interface and workflow I enjoy using.
As for Clone Wars: just stop watching – it really IS quite bad ;-)
I’m an Aperture user who really wants to be blown away by Lightroom. I’d prefer to be proficient in both programs, and given Lightroom’s greater market share, I’d like to keep building my ability to develop in either environment.
Aperture is much easier and faster for me. There are design and interface elements that I prefer in Lightroom (e.g. I prefer the Lightroom histogram), but I find Aperture so much quicker and faster as a working environment that I wonder what others see in Lightroom that I’m missing!
Great discussion… Frankly I’ve used LR a little and even gave it a couple of weeks trial while all the time using Aperture… I have to say I’ve stayed with Aperture cos i love the interface and control. But I’ve been reading alot and I’m wondering if I’m missing out on something big with LR. I find aperture(2.5) a little on the limited side when processing RAW files from my 5d MKII. Its still quite quick but I haven’t seen really LR can do on the speed front with the MKII. I find myself exporting and importing alot to PS to run actions etc and this can be slow and sometimes error prone. I’m not sure what this experience is like with LR.. I find that aperture lacks a few good tools and of course presets i hope they have the answer in a version 3 which i am waiting on everyday!!… Tell me lads… am i missing something in LR…? should i move ?? I do love my aperture experience… but I see alot of processing that comes out of LR and i wonder sometimes “how can i do that without going into PS”…. me thinks me’s missing something…
I’m amazed at all the love for Adobe. Bloated, expensive, Microsoft-like, and only rose to the challenge after Aperture appeared.
And overall, Aperture is the better one for fast and effective workflows. No doubt about it.
Bring on Aperture 3.
Jon T:
Amen. When Adobe announced the Lightroom beta it was like my phone company calling to give me a better price AFTER I’d switched over to cable. Apple foresaw the future of digital photography and Adobe only reacted out of necessity. Good ole Fear actually.
But Apple is bungling the execution right now. The interface is immensely superior but they need to adress feature parity. They also need to support new RAW formats much, much faster to keep their credibility. Bring on Aperture 3? yes please.
You’re right Jon, but what Adobe did was something Apple didn’t do – listen to its customers.
So now I, as a loyal Apple fan, use a competing product because Apple treats pro photographers as consumers: Total silence between updates, ZERO product roadmap and thin feature set.
The jury is in, and Adobe wins this round. It’s up to Apple to answer.
Bring on round 3!
I see this and it gets me thinking….!!!! Aperture 3 is on the way baby… :-)
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Aperture-Workflow-Digital-Photographers/dp/0240521781
Whoa Paul, good catch!
But did you see the date? April 2010!!
Let’s hope it’s just a target – a very, very OFF target…
Hmmm seems to be removed… For those who missed it it was an aperture book set for release next year and the title was aperture (x) version pending
I am very new to the Apple scene but I am a little confused about the mention of $99 for the new Aperture. What I really want to know is whether this will for AN UPDATE, or a new complete program.
At the moment I believe that the cost of Aperture 2 is in the $200 range. If the $99 is for an update then I will go and buy the Aperture.
Thanks in anticipation
Leon:
No one knows how much the new version will cost. What we do know is that the full price for Aperture 2 is $199 and the last upgrade (from versions 1x) was $99. Right now I’m expecting the same thing for Aperture 3 (or X) – unless they decide to get aggressive and lower the price to compete with Lightroom (which is already more expensive btw). Time will – hopefully – tell…
I do thank you for your prompt reply. I would imagine that the $99 figure mentioned would be for an update. After all Apple is a non profit making company but there are limits I suppose.
I bought the upgrade for iphoto this afternoon on a friends suggestion. $99 dollars later I feel that I have been ‘conned’.
Ah well I suppose you can not take it with you.
Thanks.
“After all Apple is a non profit making company but there are limits I suppose.”
Where did you get the idea that Apple is non-profit? It’s very much for-profit!
As for iPhoto, there are no upgrade paths. The only way to get a new version is to buy the most recent iLife suite which also includes the other apps. So you paid $99 for iLife 09, not an iPhoto upgrade.
Don’t feel conned btw. There’s still a lot you can do in iPhoto that you can’t with Aperture (exportable slideshows, cards etc) and it’s possible to use your Aperture library in iPhoto without duplicating its files. Plus you get Garageband ;-)
Patrick…I was being cynical re Apple being non profit. Please I should explain that I moved over to Mac some 18 months ago. Since then I have had great difficulty understanding how it works. I am now in my 80s and perhaps I am slowing down a bit and am not accepting this gracefully.. I have a proposed purchaser for my imac so I could go back to P.C. if I wish. However my friends feel that I am not patient enough. Perhaps they are correct.
Re my latest purchase the salesman did not explain that I was buying a new iphoto altogether so now my total of about 8.000 pics have got to be reinstalled. Fortunately I have kept all my shots on discs but it is going to create a lot of work. Surely some provision should be there so that I can transfer these shots in iphoto 8 to iphoto 9. If it is there then I had better find it. I was told that I was buying an upgrade.
You are very kind to reply to by ‘bitching’ and I sincerely thank you for your help.
Leon
Still trying new technology in your 80s? Wow, I wish I’m just like you when I get there :-)
Regarding iPhoto: the fact that it’s a new version won’t affect your pictures at all. When you first launch iPhoto 09 it’ll simply upgrade your existing library and you’ll be good to go. No need to re-import anything from disc.
I can understand your frustrations at having to re-learn a new operating system. Often times it’s people with a lot of experience on Windows that’ll find the switch the most jarring – usually because they’re trying to make the Mac work like a PC and overlooking simpler ways of doing things. For example, I’ve seen PC users struggle trying to find a wizard to install software when all that was needed was a simple drag and drop.
I’m a Mac user and wouldn’t dream of using Windows. But you should use what works for you. Give it a good chance – I think it’s worth it – but in the end choose the tool you like best.
Later
My mother is 88 years old, and just made the jump from OS9 to Snow Leopard! It was some rough sledding, but she adapted amazingly well. I’m giving her lessons to gradually expand her capabilities.